Official Luthiers Forum!
http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/

Bind headplate before or after gluing to headstock?
http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=41066		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  WendyW [ Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:21 am ]
Post subject:  Bind headplate before or after gluing to headstock?
So which way do you do it? Pictures, methods, instructions are all appreciated!
Thanks, Wendy
Author:  brazil66 [ Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bind headplate before or after gluing to headstock?
The short answer is ...After.
Author:  brazil66 [ Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bind headplate before or after gluing to headstock?
Plus one!
Author:  Beth Mayer [ Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bind headplate before or after gluing to headstock?
So....glue the head plate; shape the entire headstock; rout the binding ledge? How do you rout it....lam trimmer? Seems like the router base (like the StewMac precision base with edge guide attached) would be a little bulky for this job.
Author:  Casey Cochran [ Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bind headplate before or after gluing to headstock?
Stewmac bits/bearings and a router table work well for me.
Author:  WendyW [ Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bind headplate before or after gluing to headstock?
Good info Filippo, thanks. I'll 2nd Beth's question. Beth, Burton has a documented build where he uses a 1/16 piloted router bit from Stew Mac to cut the ledge, but he does it before gluing to the headstock, although he glues his headplate to a backing, and his ledge is actually for the purfling and the binding gets glued to the edge of the headplate. So his is actually kind of a cross between the 2 methods. I'd still like to see pictures of the method if anyone has any.
Author:  Tim Mullin [ Tue Aug 06, 2013 1:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bind headplate before or after gluing to headstock?
I use the same trimmer on a Williams jig as I do for binding/purfling ledges around a body. Just hold the neck in a vice so that the headstock face is level and around you go.
Author:  Burton LeGeyt [ Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bind headplate before or after gluing to headstock?
As Wendy mentioned, I do it all before, I find it much easier. Once the headplate is done I make a temporary pattern (usually in 1/2" MDF or similar) of it with a pattern bit on the router table and use that (taped to the headplate) to rout the headstock after they are glued up. I have a master template that I use to make the headplate, if that makes sense. small pins drilled through where the strings will be help for alignment when gluing the plate onto the headstock.
Author:  WendyW [ Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bind headplate before or after gluing to headstock?
Thanks Burton, I was hoping you would chime in here, since your documented build, shows the process of making the headplate, but not gluing to and shaping the headstock. Good to know about the temporary pattern. I was planning on using locating pins to glue the headplate in place. Do you cut the front nut edge of the headplate before or after it is glued? Thanks for that documented build by the way. I learned a lot from it!
Wendy
Author:  Burton LeGeyt [ Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bind headplate before or after gluing to headstock?
Wendy,

Thanks, I'm glad it helped! I do mean to finish it someday but have no idea when that will be-

I sand/plane/shape in the angle before gluing the laminate onto the neck. Then I use the template I made and align it to the headstock tip, it doesn't matter how much I removed on the nut end.
Author:  Beth Mayer [ Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bind headplate before or after gluing to headstock?
I can't find Burton's documented build to review it. Can anyone give me the link? Thanks, Beth
Author:  WendyW [ Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bind headplate before or after gluing to headstock?
viewtopic.php?f=10117&t=29270

See if that works, since I'm not sure how to link it.
Author:  WendyW [ Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bind headplate before or after gluing to headstock?
I spent a very frustrating 2 days over the weekend trying to bend ebony binding for my headplate. I used a small torch and several sizes of small pipe that got good and hot. I tried different thicknesses of binding and every time it broke. Not my first time bending small radiuses on a pipe, so I think it was the ebony. I tried a metal strap over the outside of the bend. I even tried SuperSoft II. Sprayed it on Saturday night and tried bending late morning on Sunday. Same thing, break, break, break. In a last ditch attempt I am going to try making it extremely thin and, if it will bend, laminating 2 together. About ready to give up! [headinwall]
Author:  SteveSmith [ Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bind headplate before or after gluing to headstock?
Sometimes ebony can be a real bear to bend.
Author:  Beth Mayer [ Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bind headplate before or after gluing to headstock?
I once ended up using a black fiber binding on a uke because I kept breaking the ebony during the bend. It ended up looking pretty good....not the best, but maybe it would be okay for just binding the headstock.
Author:  theguitarwhisperer [ Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bind headplate before or after gluing to headstock?
I always bind mine off the headstock so I can make sure it looks good first.
Attachment:
Binding headplate.JPG


Attachment:
Bound Headplate.JPG
Author:  Arnt Rian [ Tue Aug 13, 2013 4:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bind headplate before or after gluing to headstock?
With some headstocks geometries, such as the old Gibson style (where its edges are perpendicular to the plane of the strings rather the face of the headstock) it is necessary to bind the overlay with oversize binding, before shaping the heastock, then cut the headstock to size. Because of the "slanting" geometry of the headstock edges, it is not possible to use them as a guide for routing, at least not if the goal is equally wide binding rabbet.

The headstock overlay can be bound either before or after being glued on the oversize headstock, but its final shape must be cut after for this to happen. I usually bind F5-style mandolin headstocks after the overlay is glued on the oversize headstock, which, as I understand, is also how Gibson used to do it. There is a very good article in a recent "American Lutherie" where Andrew Mowry shows how he does it (he binds first).
Author:  Arnt Rian [ Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bind headplate before or after gluing to headstock?
OK, that was probably not very easy to understand... Here are a few images of one I did a while back, hopefully they will explain things a bit better

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image
Author:  Beth Mayer [ Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bind headplate before or after gluing to headstock?
Wow, Arnt! Nice work and excellent documentation of your process. Very helpful to the discussion. Thanks!
Author:  theguitarwhisperer [ Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bind headplate before or after gluing to headstock?
It looks to me as if the difference is that you can make your headstock binding thicker than the face plate if you bind afterwards. If you bind THEN glue, then the binding will only and always be the thickness of your faceplate. Other than that pretty much any binding scheme can be done before or after, although these mandolin headstocks look like they need to be done prior.
Author:  WendyW [ Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bind headplate before or after gluing to headstock?
Wow, now I am confused. Arnt, are you referring to the lower headplate curve in the transition area from the neck to the headstock? Or the edge of the whole headstock? Nice work by the way!
Author:  WendyW [ Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bind headplate before or after gluing to headstock?
Whoops, I should have looked more closely at the pictures before I posted that. I do understand now.
Author:  Doug Balzer [ Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bind headplate before or after gluing to headstock?
Thanks Arnt, your pics answered several of my questions.
Author:  Darrel Friesen [ Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bind headplate before or after gluing to headstock?
On my first three archtops, I used Stew Macs binding attachment for a Dremel. It worked OK for those instruments doing multiple passes. What I have found it handy for since is routing the ledge when binding headstocks. It will follow most shapes and you aren't confined to the thickness of the headstock veneer if doing it before glueing.
Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC - 5 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/